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Kuribo [old account]

A New Education System?

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Kuribo [old account]

It should be obvious now that I thoroughly despise the conventional education system and it's effects on human behaviour and the whole of Western society. See here and here for more information.

I have made my moral objections to public education systems very clear, but I must admit that I'm struggling to think of how an alternative in line with my values would work, and the purpose of this thread is to bring together some ideas for an alternative education system that could be applied across all of Western society.

It would have to encompass the following:

* Respect for individuality

* Equality

* Two-way respect as opposed to students being forced to feed some asshat's superiority complex

* A focus on learning rather than on mindless, unnecessary conformity that is ultimately harmful to society

* Justification for the existence of any and all rules

* Respect for the rights to free speech and self expression

* Teachers would act as guides, rather than tyrants.

* Unreasonably aggressive teachers would be given one warning then fired without notice

* Far less of a focus on rote memory

If you feel we are on the same track, feel free to elaborate on any of the above or suggest your own.

I want ideas on how a comprehensive education system could be structured around these values from infancy to sixteen/eighteen. Additionally, ideas on how society as a whole could change to accommodate your/our hypothetical education system are welcome.

I am completely open to any ideas you may have on this subject. Don't worry, I am under no illusions that anything like this would ever become mainstream, at least not in my lifetime. I'm just interested to see what we can come up with. :)

I am open to debate about my views, but I would appreciate it if you kept it to this thread rather than derailing this one.

Thanks.

Edited by Kuribo

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Toran

That is an age old question that some of the greatest minds have pondered.

I agree with what you have said but like you have no idea how this would ever work in a hundred years.

You have thought through your reasonings I believe very well but if it were to ever be attained you would need a massive change in human consciousness.

The school system is geared up to introduce children to a mould that reflects adult life as you know.

This is controlled by a monertory ilete based on profit at the expense of personal rights and freedoms so it can feed on wealth created by others.

Look at the banking system for that, and check out the Knights Temple's as well as to a history of an early model of today's system if your interested.

What your suggesting is dependant on the other system changing first which is very unlikely given current society's resolve to look beyond what wealth they can accumulate for itself.

Your In a very difficult political area and the battle has been going on for many years and will continue to do so for many more.

But your idea is a good one and as you grow your going to have an awful lot of good ideas that a lot of people will appreciate and support.

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King_oni

The things you describe did somewhat apply to when I was attending college/uni. Though, not when I was in high school. So in that sense... this educational system DOES exist to some degree.

 

I never did well with the high school system due to a lot of conflicting things I found in the way it is run. And if I heard friends, who attended different high schools, I actually had it pretty good. I didn't end up with these classroom dictators that much as some of my friends did.

 

The reason I failed for any significant education in my life is of a totally different order, and has nothing to do with having major issues with rules and conformity. And for the record; I had my share of conformity issues... and still have. It's just that I fall way on the outer rim of the bell curve at some point. And I can fully understand you have to draw lines somewhere... it just doesn't mean that I will bow down and accept where the line is drawn.

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Kuribo [old account]

The things you describe did somewhat apply to when I was attending college/uni. Though, not when I was in high school. So in that sense... this educational system DOES exist to some degree.

 

I never did well with the high school system due to a lot of conflicting things I found in the way it is run. And if I heard friends, who attended different high schools, I actually had it pretty good. I didn't end up with these classroom dictators that much as some of my friends did.

 

The reason I failed for any significant education in my life is of a totally different order, and has nothing to do with having major issues with rules and conformity. And for the record; I had my share of conformity issues... and still have. It's just that I fall way on the outer rim of the bell curve at some point. And I can fully understand you have to draw lines somewhere... it just doesn't mean that I will bow down and accept where the line is drawn.

I'm talking about the high school and lower system exclusively. I have no issue with the way college and university work. Like you, I have been reasonably lucky in terms of the teachers I've had, but the fact that abusive behaviour can happen and is pretty much still considered to be acceptable is totally wrong, as is the total inequality of the situation. Apparently, it is fine to show extreme aggression towards and abuse a young person, yet doing the same to an adult would likely result in the offending teacher being escorted from the building and fired. :angry:

I too understand that boundaries have to exist, and I have no issue with them if they exist for a clear, valid and relevant reason. I'd say that the vast majority do not. They merely exist to enforce the feeling that conforming to the actions of the masses is inherently the correct thing to do.

Anyway, the purpose of this thread is to come up with a hypothetical education system in line with those values. Anyone have any ideas?

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Sofi

I quite liked my school, you would probably have liked it too Kuribo or you probably prefer your sister's school. They are similar schools I think. All schools should be run like special schools. When I was in the secondary school they just let me read about Greece all day and do what I want. 

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Nesf

Yeah... I've said it before, school was like boot camp. Uniform. Rules for the sake of rules. I had difficulty accepting these rules, as in order to respect a rule I need to believe in it. There were many rules at school that existed that I saw no purpose in, and didn't believe in. Temple Grandin calls them "sins of the system".

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Kuribo [old account]

I quite liked my school, you would probably have liked it too Kuribo or you probably prefer your sister's school. They are similar schools I think. All schools should be run like special schools. When I was in the secondary school they just let me read about Greece all day and do what I want.

Yes, this is good. We need specialisation at an earlier age, and less of a focus on qualifications when it comes to employment, as they are often irrelevant to the job and just "look good" on a CV.

Here in Scotland, they are seriously thinking of extending the broad general education for another year and not allowing people to specialise until their fourth year in high school. This is an utterly ludicrous idea. For the short-sighted people who leave at the end of their fourth year with no ambition for the future, what would this mean? No qualifications gained from high school at all? Or would they HAVE to stay for five years, meaning even more control being exerted over young people? I can see no way this could possibly turn out positively. It'd just make getting a job even more difficult for people and create a culture of "common scum" vs. "the elite".

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tern

 Don't worry, I am under no illusions that anything like this would ever become mainstream, at least not in my lifetime. I'm just interested to see what we can come up with.

 

It might become mainstream if you were stronger in favour of folks exposing their own specific named examples of the present system's effects and wrong outcomes. Such examples are factually evidenced, from their own content. So they are not defamatory: everyone who says oh no never write about named examples for fear of being defamatory, is obstructing making kids safe and is perpetuating the system. Every time sites and communities go for a catch-all legally paranoid rule of no identified stories of bad things, they are disastrously falling for one of the system's fully consicous tricks for covering itself up.

May I advertise to you Lib Ed www.libed.org.uk and Personalised Education Now http://blog.personalisededucationnow.org.uk/ They are effectively the anti-school movement in Britain now.

 

A priority need for me is that student are not stuck belonging long term to the same fixed class of other students. It is a cause of peer group oppression. If you are just taking classes as and when suits you by choice, then it matters to take them where you feel comfortable, go anywhere for them to avoid a school where you feel uncomfortable, and if you are a too small kid to travel around on your own yet, then an obligation on the adults to facilitate your shopping around. Besides, if students can do this and are not stuck with the same peer group long term, then all classes are likely to be made nicer because peer group hierarchies and violence will get much less chance to develop.

 

 

I agree with what you have said but like you have no idea how this would ever work in a hundred years.

Start from the template of how adult education, evening classes in book subjects, work training classes in physical skills like woodwork, works now.

Edited by tern

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Kuribo [old account]

It might become mainstream if you were stronger in favour of folks exposing their own specific named examples of the present system's effects and wrong outcomes. Such examples are factually evidenced, from their own content. So they are not defamatory: everyone who says oh no never write about named examples for fear of being defamatory, is obstructing making kids safe and is perpetuating the system. Every time sites and communities go for a catch-all legally paranoid rule of no identified stories of bad things, they are disastrously falling for one of the system's fully consicous tricks for covering itself up.

May I advertise to you Lib Ed www.libed.org.uk and Personalised Education Now http://blog.personalisededucationnow.org.uk/ They are effectively the anti-school movement in Britain now.

 

A priority need for me is that student are not stuck belonging long term to the same fixed class of other students. It is a cause of peer group oppression. If you are just taking classes as and when suits you by choice, then it matters to take them where you feel comfortable, go anywhere for them to avoid a school where you feel uncomfortable, and if you are a too small kid to travel around on your own yet, then an obligation on the adults to facilitate your shopping around. Besides, if students can do this and are not stuck with the same peer group long term, then all classes are likely to be made nicer because peer group hierarchies and violence will get much less chance to develop.

Sorry, I forgot to respond to this. I completely agree with your idea of attending classes at any time. The social dynamic that commonly develops in involuntary classes between peer groups is a big problem, and the involuntary nature of classes breeds contempt for them, making things worse. I like the idea of drop-in classes, as opposed to the traditional structure of schools.

I am in favour of people giving specific examples, such as your story about the staircase rule from your school. The only reason I do not is because I have been the target of cyber-stalking behaviour on other Autism forums. While I'm not concerned about this person anymore, I don't want to run the risk of providing them with any personal information. But yes, I am completely in favour of others exposing what goes on in their schools.

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AutismUnrestricted

I hated school, Lecture based classes were of no use to me as I could never concentrate due to sensory distractions, I remember pretending to be my own teacher at home and teaching stuff to myself, that's how I managed personally. I wish there was internet when I was young and I could have learnt stuff off the internet instead of relying of class notes. I also wish that all professions were treated with the same respect and paid the same so that if someone is a bin man instead of a Doctor, they don't have to live with an inferiority complex for the rest of their lives and pick up minimum wage because really a bin man is just as important as a Doctor in my opinion, If no one collected trash, we will all die of germs and diseases.  

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