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Myrtonos

How the heck should these posters be helped?!?

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Myrtonos

 So I've posted a lot in "The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread..." and the poster are attacking other road users, in this case (other) cyclists and pedestrians. The thread is about observation
incidents where road users (in particular cyclists and pedestrians) are not acting sensibly and according to the rules. First of all, the very title of the thread seems to imply that those cyclists and pedestrians are less intelligent, when this sort of thig is not a function of intelligence. I began encouranging the assumition of good faith and discouraging use of perjorative terms just after this post, instead ecouraging being polite to other road users and assuming good faith, and they don't seem to understand what assuming good faith means, and they presist on calling them "idiots" and claming that they are "stupid." Futhermore things like the unfairness of red lights and "rights" are (unfairly) considered "off-topic." I am mentioning it here, because I think a lot more people on this forum (mostly AS women) have a lot more empathy for others and are more likely to understand what I am trying to tell them.

 I also sent a PM to a poster on that forum, which he seriously misread, and he won't let me correct him or tell him that I didn't mean to offend him, that is he told me not to contact him again (in all caps), I tried very hard to exlpain why other road users wich act as if they hate him, that maybe some actions of his own,which may not occur to him as "inappropriate" but which would be widely disliked by many aspie damsels who have mastered NT social skills. He also misinterpeted something of mine as suggesting that he had a mental defficency. I did ask him if he sees a psychaitrist, and I did mention Tony Attwood and asperger's syndrome, but I never mentioned any metal defficiencies, he obviously doesn't understand that AS is not a mental defficency.

 

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Willow

Hey Myrtone :) 

 

I don't know what you want us to say here. I saw one thing highlighted on that thread, which was: assume everyone else is an idiot until the show otherwise - and I have to say I'd agree with that. Not so harshly as that, but more like, just expect nobody else to be paying as much attention as you would, or expect everyone else's brakes to fail, indicators to be broken etc. You have to, so that you can constantly be prepared for anything and can make a maneuver quick enough to help avoid any accidents. It's not about thinking that the people themselves are actually less intelligent, it's about allowing for misjudgment, distraction etc, so that you may be alert enough when they are not. It's happened when we've been driving many times, where if my partner had not been expecting people to just pull out or whatever, we'd have had an accident with them, but because he's very alert, we avoided it, and got a sorry from the person who almost caused it.

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Myrtonos

This is not to say that I don't agree, indeed one shouldn't automatically assume that others are paying attention, the point I am making is that just because someone is not pay as much attention as you for an example doesn't mean they are a bad person, as many of the folk posting in that thread seem to suggest they are, by calling them "idiots." If it's not about thinking that the people themselves are actually less intelligent why do those BNA posters accuse the misbehaving road users of 'stupidity?' And why, more importantly is that thread called "The Dumb cyclists and pedestrians thread?" Acting insenibly and not according to the rules and acting in bad faith are different things. Just because other's aren't paying attention doesn't mean they are bad peolpe, and doesn't mean they are less intelligent. Good faith and proper actions are not the same thing.  I've seen two videos where Chris is dealing with those cutting him off, in one Chris does honk and insults the truck driver, the point is regardless of whether one uses the horn or whether the trucker wanted to hit your car or not, the result of the evasive action is the same, avoiding a collision with the truck. Besides honking at and assuming bad faith of a truck driver is different from honking/yelling at a pedestrian. One is the difference between doing so te a less vulnerable road user and a more vulnerable one, the other is more complex, heavny vehicle drivers must necessarily have skills and knowledge beyard those of a light vehicle driver. Heavy vehicle licensees must be more extensively trained and meet stricter vision and medical standards, which wolud make them less mistake prone, they also tend to be proffesinonals (often drivers by trade) and so any non-compliance with the road rules amounts to doing their job improperly.

Pedestrians are much more vulnerbale than car occupants, and do not need any qualifications at all, and whether they obey the official rules is not a case of whether they are doing their jobs properlly.

Here's an experiment, look at if as if social competence among other (mostly neurotypical) road users is the most important skill for all drivers, especially non-proffesionals, to have.* Try to respect other road users for what decisions they make as well as accomodate their decisons to avoid running into them and rather than suggesting that they make the same decisions as you. Look at if as if every non-proffessional road user but yourself has their own choice as to whether for example bother stopping for an amber light, and if every pedestrian other than yoursely may mabe they own choice as to whether they jaywalk.

As for the thinking that there may be AS women who have a lot more empathy for others and are more likely to understand what I am trying to tell those BNA guys, I know there extreme empathy is very common among AS women, more empathetic than even the general female population. And those aspie women who master NT social skills and gain lot's of friends and acheive much social success often, at least partly due to extreme empathy, often learn to do better than even many non-autistic people, including most of the guys posting in that BNA thread, in understanding how their actions make other people feel.

*There is a sense, mainly among layperons and mostly implicit, that ordinary people can know how to drive an unguided ground vehicle, at least if the use is not commercial and no fare paying passengers are carried, while only special sorts of people know how to driver fixed guideway vehicles, such as a train, or even a tram, these almost always proffesionally driven, and to pilot vessels and especiall aircraft, whether for personal or commercial use. Don't you think it is significant that althought technical mindedness, vehicle ethusiasm, etc is more common among men, women are on average safer drivers of private ground vehicles? On the other hand trains and aircraft, while mostly operated by (technically minded) men, are less likely to end up in crashes, including fatal ones, than road vehicles, especially those driven by non-proffesionals.

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Mike_GX101

Sorry I thought you meant the kind of "posters" you pin up on walls and windows!!

 

As per the topic being discussed: Quite frankly I think some driver's aught to be ashamed of themselves.  That said I take a dim view of cyclists who jump red lights and have head phones on while they ride as they give the rest of us cyclists a bad name.

 

Perhaps the worst and most dangerous behaviour I've seen from a driver was to overtake and immediately turn left almost killing me.  It beggars belief.  They wouldn't do it to another car but take a live human being and take him out of the safe metal shell of a car and place him on a bike and suddenly he becomes something equivalent to 'bait' to various kinds of nasty selfish driver.

Edited by Mike_GX101

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bristlenose

Found it hard to follow your second post but I think I understood your initial point. People aren't inclined to distinguish between the concept of a stupid person and a "stupid" act, unless the stupid act was their own or of someone they like or know well. Can see a lot of this in the gripes of techies toward "lusers", retail workers toward customers, rail workers toward passengers, etc. There's a bit of a Schadenfruede-like joy people take in labelling others stupid, but I think it's largely a part of the psychology of attribution.

It's a problem insofar as it becomes a pervasive, default attitude rather than being reserved for when it's really justified. But not much you can do about it apart from trying to avoid the tendency yourself - it's peeing into the wind to battle it in the context of that bike forum thread.

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Mike_GX101

As for the thinking that there may be AS women who have a lot more empathy for others and are more likely to understand what I am trying to tell those BNA guys, I know there extreme empathy is very common among AS women, more empathetic than even the general female population. And those aspie women who master NT social skills and gain lot's of friends and acheive much social success often, at least partly due to extreme empathy, often learn to do better than even many non-autistic people, including most of the guys posting in that BNA thread, in understanding how their actions make other people feel.

 

 

Interesting idea...where do you get it from?

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Nesf

Interesting idea...where do you get it from?

Yeah... I must say I question the validity of this. while it may be true that AS females may manage some social skills slightly better than their male counterparts, they still have an AS diagnosis, which means by definition that they have problems with social communication to an extent that it affects their life significantly, so I doubt that they could master social skills better than NT females. Otherwise why would they have the AS diagnosis?

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Xmas

Yeah... I must say I question the validity of this. while it may be true that AS females may manage some social skills slightly better than their male counterparts, they still have an AS diagnosis, which means by definition that they have problems with social communication to an extent that it affects their life significantly, so I doubt that they could master social skills better than NT females. Otherwise why would they have the AS diagnosis?

Yes, I would say that I have virtually zero social skills but I can sometimes put on a fairly good NT act which sometimes attracts friendships. But it's just an act to fit in, and further on down the line I usually have to let the friendships go as I cannot deal with them on a day to day basis.

 

I have one close friend which is as much as I can handle. I am much more comfortable not to have to deal with people face to face.

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Toran

Im quite happy being alone I think being here is good enough I fail time and time again maybe its about time I excepted what I am and what makes me happy.

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Xmas

Im quite happy being alone I think being here is good enough I fail time and time again maybe its about time I excepted what I am and what makes me happy.

Yes, being alone is my natural state. When I was younger I would often feel lonely and actively seek friendships and then ironically when I did have friends I would refuse to socialise with them and shut myself away.

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