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Myrtonos

General guide to learning Latin based languages

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Myrtonos

Of course there are false friends. While the idea is to access the Latin side of English, I never proposed doing so blindly. Also, 'dramatic' and 'spectacular' are different in meaning in 'English.'

Apparently 'supporter' means 'to bear' in French.

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Joie6

Thank you to make me notice the mistake on the meaning of "dramatic"

Yes, it does. And some French words come from English. For example, in French, "robe" means "dress" and this word comes from the English verb "rob" (I don't know why). And I've learned that the English verb "to surrender" comes from the old French verb "surrendre" which became "se rendre" in modern French. I find that surprising !

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Nesf
On 1/1/2018 at 7:54 PM, Joie6 said:

Yes, it's a way. But warning ! There are also fake friends. For example, "dramatic" means  "spectacular" whereas the french word "dramatique" means "tragic".

Yes, that's why @Myrtonos's proposed 'conversation technique' is unreliable. Another example is the Romanian word 'distracție' which usually means fun, entertainment and not 'distraction'.

Another false friend is the Greek word εμπάθια (empatheia), which doesn't mean empathy as one might think, but negative feelings towards someone, i.e. totally the opposite.

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Myrtonos

It's only unreliable if conversion is done blindly. There are actual language courses based on these techniques. Yes, there are false friends, and that's when the meaning needs to be given.

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Myrtonos
On 1/5/2018 at 1:51 AM, Nesf said:

Another example is the Romanian word 'distracție' which usually means fun, entertainment and not 'distraction'.

So, to say fun or entertainment in Romanian, you simply convert the English word 'distraction' into Romanian. And to say (he/she/it) entertains, simply take off the -cție from distrație.

Okay, the point of this conversion technique is that there are many true friends, likely more of them than false friends; petiție, decorație, preperație, etc.

What one needs is a glossary of false friends and English words ending in -able/-ible, tion, -al, etc that don't correspond to Romanian words ending in -abil/-ibil, ție, -al, etc, not a dictionary.

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Nesf
On 1/10/2019 at 8:47 AM, Myrtonos said:

Okay, the point of this conversion technique is that there are many true friends, likely more of them than false friends; petiție, decorație, preperație, etc.

Yes, there are many 'true friends', but because of the many false friends, adding the -ție ending isn't reliable as a rule.  There are too many exceptions. It's also not the only rule to govern such words. There are also many words that end in -tion in English that end in -iune in Romanian. Example: English = option, Romanian - opţiune. So it really isn't that simple, and I still need to learn each individual word's translation.

On 1/10/2019 at 8:47 AM, Myrtonos said:

What one needs is a glossary of false friends and English words ending in -able/-ible, tion, -al, etc that don't correspond to Romanian words ending in -abil/-ibil, ție, -al, etc, not a dictionary.

Yes, you could do that, or just tag or 'colour' them in your mind, as following the rule or not following it. Personally, I find that I can't rely on such rules, and need to learn each word individually rather than according to such rules.

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Myrtonos
1 hour ago, Nesf said:

Yes, there are many 'true friends', but because of the many false friends, adding the -ție ending isn't reliable as a rule.  There are too many exceptions.

Aren't there more true friends than false friends? As long as they are, it seems to way to pick up these words is to learn the rules and only learn exceptions to the rules individually. If there are more true friends than false friends, than surely one simply needs to learn only each false friend's translation, not translations of true friends.

1 hour ago, Nesf said:

Yes, you could do that, or just tag or 'colour' them in your mind, as following the rule or not following it. Personally, I find that I can't rely on such rules, and need to learn each word individually rather than according to such rules.

What does it mean to tag them or 'colour' them in your mind? Also, could it be that you already know (nearly) all the true friends and so such rules become less useful? They are very useful for beginners and intermediate learners.

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Nesf
2 hours ago, Myrtonos said:

Aren't there more true friends than false friends? As long as they are, it seems to way to pick up these words is to learn the rules and only learn exceptions to the rules individually. If there are more true friends than false friends, than surely one simply needs to learn only each false friend's translation, not translations of true friends.

It's more like a kind of pie chart, where about 30% of the words follow the -ţiune rule, about 40% follow the -ție rule, and the other 30% are miscellaneous words with Greek, Slavic or Dacian origin. There is no one rule with an overall majority, or at least,  this is how it seems to me.

2 hours ago, Myrtonos said:

What does it mean to tag them or 'colour' them in your mind?

They have a kind of feeling or colour to them, and I associate them with a colour, and that helps me to remember them, for example, a -ție word is orange.

2 hours ago, Myrtonos said:

Also, could it be that you already know (nearly) all the true friends and so such rules become less useful? They are very useful for beginners and intermediate learners.

Indeed, you do have a point here. A lot of the new vocabulary I come across is slavic or old Dacian in origin.

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Myrtonos

There is one thing that you can do when learning a new noun, be it a true friend, false friend or any other. There are certain endings that, in general, tell you the gender of the noun, as noted at the start. I would guess that Romanian nouns ending in -ie are unless they refer to male beings, same with all nouns ending in -iune, and that nouns ending in -ant or -ent are always masculine, at least in the singular.

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Nesf
On 1/16/2019 at 10:03 AM, Myrtonos said:

I would guess that Romanian nouns ending in -ie are unless they refer to male beings, same with all nouns ending in -iune, and that nouns ending in -ant or -ent are always masculine, at least in the singular.

I think you mean that nouns ending in -ie are feminine? Yes, that's a good, reliable rule to which I can't think of any exceptions. Nouns ending in consonents are trickier, they can be either masculine or neuter.

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