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Sirius

Hans Asperger - Nazi Child Murderer

Should Asperger Syndrome be renamed?  

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  1. 1. Should Asperger Syndrome be renamed?

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Sirius

It has recently come to light that Hans Asperger was not only a supporter of the Nazi regime, but an active participant in its vile eugenics programme responsible for the murder of close to 800 disabled children considered to be "unworthy" of life. :mellow:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/19/hans-asperger-aided-and-supported-nazi-programme-study-says

Quote

The Austrian doctor after whom Asperger syndrome is named was an active participant in the Nazi regime, assisting in the Third Reich’s so called euthanasia programme and supporting the concept of racial hygiene by deeming certain children unworthy to live, according to a study by a medical historian. Herwig Czech, from Vienna’s Medical University, has made the claim in an academic paper published in the open access journal Molecular Autism, following eight years of research into the paediatrician Hans Asperger.

...by unearthing previously untouched documents from state archives, including Asperger’s personnel files and patient case records, Czech has revealed a scientist who allied himself so closely with the Nazi ideology that he frequently referred children to the Am Spiegelgrund clinic, which was set up as a collecting point for children who failed to conform to the regime’s criteria of “worthy to live”. Nearly 800 children died at the clinic between 1940 and 1945, many of whom were murdered under the notorious child “euthanasia” scheme.

Among Czech’s findings is a photo of the distraught face of Herta Schreiber, who suffered from encephalitis and died of pneumonia three months after her admittance to Spiegelgrund, on Asperger’s orders, a day after her third birthday. Asperger ordered her transfer because “she must be an unbearable burden to her mother” and she was deemed incurable. A specimen of Herta’s brain, found in a preparation jar in the basement of the clinic in the late 1990s, was buried in 2002, Czech said.

There was no evidence that Asperger deliberately targeted for euthanasia the patients with distinct psychological characteristics he had called “autistic psychopaths”, under the diagnosis for which he became famous, said Czech. But his diagnoses proved burdensome for many of his patients, even years after the collapse of the Nazi regime. Asperger continued working as a doctor for more than three decades. Neither, said Czech, was there evidence of the benevolent attitude towards his patients that Asperger and others later boasted of. Czech also found a distinct lack of evidence of Asperger’s self-coined “pedagogic optimism”, according to which some could be treated or cured.

Asperger did take considerable pride in his “Heilpädagogik” – therapeutic pedagogy – which promoted the popular idea among his colleagues and Nazi leaders at a time of labour shortages that in certain cases people with autism made excellent soldiers and reliable workers. But Asperger also wrote about the need to “carry out restrictive measures” against patients deemed to be incurable and with hereditary conditions “out of a sense of great responsibility” towards the German race. “In short, he was responsible for depriving of their liberty many children whom he deemed incapable of existing outside institutions,” Czech said.

“Asperger refused to acknowledge the reality of anti-Jewish persecution by the Nazi regime; this indifference is visible both during and after the war,” said Czech.

“It would have been wrong for me to have withheld this information, however difficult it might be to hear,” he said. “At the same time, there is no evidence to show his contributions to autism research were tainted by his problematic role during National Socialism. So purging the term Asperger from the medical lexicon would not be helpful. Rather, this should be an opportunity to look at the past and learn lessons from it.” Carol Povey, director at the National Autistic Society in the UK’s Centre for Autism, said: “We expect these findings to spark a big conversation among autistic people and their family members, particularly those who identify with the term ‘Asperger’. Obviously no one with a diagnosis of Asperger syndrome should feel in any way tainted by this very troubling history.”

How do you feel about this? Acknowledging his significant contribution to medical research is one thing, but are you okay with an integral part of who you are being named in memory of a man who sent innocent children to be detained, tortured and murdered in their hundreds on behalf of the most evil and barbaric regime in living memory? Or should the condition be renamed in honour of another important figure in the development of our understanding of it such as Lorna Wing, for instance?

Edited by Sirius

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Myrtonos

Note that the eugenics was more widely accepted at that time than today, and it was primarily among the left. Also, did Hans Asperger actually support it for a substantial portion of his life? Did he still support it by the time he identified the syndrome named after him? Surely his contribution to medical research is way more significant than his sending children we consider innocent to be detained, etc.

Edited by Myrtonos
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Sirius
3 hours ago, Myrtonos said:

...sending children we consider innocent to be detained, etc.

Whoa. Before I go into anything else, I must ask you to clarify the sentence fragment I've quoted. When you use the phrase "we consider innocent", are you suggesting that for a child to have a disability is (by any reasonable measure) some sort of crime, and one serious enough to justify their MURDER AND TORTURE? Out of respect, I'm assuming that this isn't what you actually intended to say, but I'm really struggling to see how it could be interpreted in any other way. I also find it bewildering that you chose to end your sentence with "etc." after the least severe of the three actions I mentioned. In what way are CHILD MURDER AND TORTURE details so superfluous that they don't even need to be mentioned?

I'm just letting you know for your own good that your post reads like pure apologetics for the MASS MURDER AND TORTURE OF CHILDREN. If that's not what you meant (and I seriously hope it isn't), it would be in your best interests to clarify what you actually intended to express as soon as possible.

Edited by Sirius

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Myrtonos

Right, maybe the disabilities of the children he arrested weren't recognised as such at the time. Note the article does say "There was no evidence that Asperger deliberately targeted for euthanasia the patients with distinct psychological characteristics he had called “autistic psychopaths”, under the diagnosis for which he became famous...", so it seems that children that were arrested had something else. And no indication was given as to whether this was before, at the same time as, or after he identified autism.

As for ending with "etc", it's not that they don't need mentioning, it's just that I couldn't be bothered mentioning the rest of what was already mentioned above.

Edited by Myrtonos

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Sanctuary

As regards the specific allegations about Asperger we need to be cautious - they may well be contested. Speaking more generally though there are all too many instances of people who have made great contributions in many fields whom we later discover have also done some dreadful things. An achievement remains an achievement irrespective of what the person has done elsewhere in their life although I would accept that it can be hard to look upon such a person in a positive way if we later discover such information. In some cases their reputation is destroyed. We'll have to wait and see what happens in this case but if the allegations are found to be well-grounded - or at least not disproved - the condition would almost certainly be renamed.

In recent years there has been a movement to drop the specific diagnosis of AS and replace it more broadly with autism. i feel this is a good move for various reasons apart from the issues mentioned above. Many people in society still have little idea what Asperger's Syndrome is - some may even think it refers to a mental or physical illness. The term "syndrome" also suggests an illness, disease or disorder which we are trying to get away from. I prefer now to refer to "autistic spectrum difference" which I feel is less judgemental and clearly makes the broader link to autism which I feel is better (though far from perfectly) understood. There is of course the issue of trying to distinguish between types of autism and the term Asperger's Syndrome was useful in a highlighting a specific form. "High functioning autism" is not always considered the same as AS but may be a better term to use instead although we know the term "high functioning" can give the false impression that those with the condition have few difficulties in life. There are other alternative possibilities for names but I feel one which specifically refers to autism is necessary.  

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Sirius
22 hours ago, Myrtonos said:

Right, maybe the disabilities of the children he arrested weren't recognised as such at the time. Note the article does say "There was no evidence that Asperger deliberately targeted for euthanasia the patients with distinct psychological characteristics he had called “autistic psychopaths”, under the diagnosis for which he became famous...", so it seems that children that were arrested had something else.

How is this relevant to their right to not be gassed, poisoned, starved, experimented on, and systematically murdered in the name of racial purity? You are drastically under-representing the severity of the situation.

6 hours ago, Sanctuary said:

As regards the specific allegations about Asperger we need to be cautious - they may well be contested.

It's not impossible, but I reckon highly unlikely that anyone would be able to build a credible case to the contrary at this point. The only way of refuting these allegations that I can imagine would be to prove that the documents unearthed had been falsified. Who would have the motivation to do such a thing?

6 hours ago, Sanctuary said:

An achievement remains an achievement irrespective of what the person has done elsewhere in their life...

That's true. I would hope that no one is suggesting Asperger's substantial contribution to medical research be minimised or erased from history. However, there are other conditions not named after those who initially discovered them, and important researchers whose names remain largely consigned to medical journals and history books. Their achievements in a medical context haven't been diminished, their names just haven't been honoured in such a publicly visible way. I'd say that's a perfectly fair and proportionate fate for the legacy of a man who willingly participated in the barbaric evil that befell hundreds of innocent children at the Am Spiegelgrund clinic in service of an insane, genocidal ideology.

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Dr-David-Banner

Nobody really knows where Asperger's true political views lay but, yes, it's correct to say the whole Asperger phenomenon owes its research to the Nazi regime. Ultimately the idea was to eradicate all those children suspected of being imperfect. That includes the mentally ill. Asperger's job was to collect a range of children with obvious defects in order to determine whether they served any purpose whatsoever or should be eradicated. It seems clear what did interest the researchers about the children was the much discussed lack of "empathy" which I imagine appealed to the current party. Also the scientific bent of the children and the unorthodox intelligence test results.

Not only was Asperger involved but also the Lebensborn children who were supposed to be a future perfect generation. I found out by curiosity one of my favourite actresses Marta Kristen was one of those children.

The Nazi Party was deeply involved in the study of ESP so after the war defeat of Germany much of the research ended up in the USSR. Other research ended up in America so both the USSR and America used the research in Nazi Germany for the study of ESP. Not only that, but America's V" rocket (that saved the Apollo Space program) was a German research project. That includes most of the NASA Apollo team as well.

From the original post, this seems to have come as something as a shock and probably upsetting. I think its safe to say these children would be used merely as a stepping stone to try and produce different types of human beings. There would have been some attempt perhaps to "breed out" the bad stuff such as the rages and stims but try and encourage the lack of empathy and the dedication to fields of interest.

The good news? We are where we are today. Since those times I think we learned (or ought to have learned) it's folly to mess with nature and genes. Look at how German Shepherd dogs went on to develop severe hip mobility issues (it happened to my own Shepherd). Besides, I happen to think defects exist for a reason anyway.

Someone elsewhere had this to say:

"The torturous acts committed by the Nazis happened in the past, and I believe I speak for everyone else here when I say that they should stay in the past. Bringing up evidence from such unethical experiments into modern day research is wrong and disrespectful to those who have died, and those who survived, the holocaust. With over 14% of doctors in the U.S being Jewish, I doubt anyone would support examining the human experiments to find little to no new information."

Maybe the feeling got strong enough to want to break from association with Asperger.
"

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Myrtonos
10 hours ago, Sirius said:

How is this relevant to their right to not be gassed, poisoned, starved, experimented on, and systematically murdered in the name of racial purity? You are drastically under-representing the severity of the situation.

 

You asked if having a disability is some sort of crime, and I said that these might have been disabilities not recognised at the time. And what is the right not to be gassed, poisoned, starved, etc? Who says people have the right not to be? Today, it is protected by laws of all democratic countries and by international laws, and these laws are enforced. That's what the people want and what the legislators have given them. But the laws of Nazi Germany, which was basically a dictatorship, didn't.

But if I person is recognised as having a disability and "arrested" for it, they are not being arrested for a crime, they are being arrested for a disability. Whether this is right, or wrong, it is different from being arrested for a crime. This is not to make any moral judgements.

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Nesf

While I don't exactly relish the idea of having a condition named after a Nazi collaborator, it doesn't and shouldn't detract from the body of research subsequently conducted on Asperger's syndrome, even if it was in his name. This body of research has helped a lot of people like myself gain recognition, closure and support for a difficult life, due to having this condition. Whatever happened in the past doesn't change the present day reality for me and thousands of others with the condition. It doesn't change who I am, and it doesn't change my condition, or that of those affected by it. We need to take what we can learn from the past, and use that to build on and improve our present reality. In any case, the term Asperger's is to be dropped by the medical profession in favour of ASD. While the holocaust and other Nazi atrocities should never be forgotten, people will stop using the term Asperger's, and that will become a thing of the past.

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Asgardian

His actions were despicable but history cannot be revised. Simply put, whether the condition is renamed or not Hans Asperger will always be linked to Asperger Syndrome. Renaming the condition is in truth nothing more than a token gesture which will neither undo his actions for the Nazi regime or cut his ties with autism. As I said, history cannot be revised

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Myrtonos
9 hours ago, Nesf said:

While I don't exactly relish the idea of having a condition named after a Nazi collaborator, it doesn't and shouldn't detract from the body of research subsequently conducted on Asperger's syndrome, even if it was in his name. This body of research has helped a lot of people like myself gain recognition, closure and support for a difficult life, due to having this condition. Whatever happened in the past doesn't change the present day reality for me and thousands of others with the condition. It doesn't change who I am, and it doesn't change my condition, or that of those affected by it. We need to take what we can learn from the past, and use that to build on and improve our present reality. In any case, the term Asperger's is to be dropped by the medical profession in favour of ASD. While the holocaust and other Nazi atrocities should never be forgotten, people will stop using the term Asperger's, and that will become a thing of the past.

Asperger's syndrome has already been removed from the latest edition of the DSM, :( though it still gets a brief mention in the ICD.

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Miss Chief

It's kind of a moot point... as @Myrtonos said above AS isn't used as a diagnosis anymore (at least in the UK/US and presumably EU), it is all diagnosed as ASD now.

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Dr-David-Banner

I took a chance on this and covered the story on the Russian autism forum. Hopefully it won't go down like a lead balloon.
I think the background of what actually happened (if nothing else) is not overly complicated. I mean, Asperger wasn't doing anything to earn him the title of genius. These children were intelligent enough but highly problematic. In Austria they were going ahead with a mass euthanasia project so it was a matter of simply gathering medical information. Then, all Asperger had to do was observe what he saw: Stims, unorthodox IQ results, special interests, rages, empathy issues. To me it was a rough diagnosis. I'm sure if I'd been a child at that time I'd have been rounded up with the rest as "problematic". It wasn't like a modern diagnosis where they try to put a precise definition on the patterns of autistic symptoms.
They seem to have left out the ESP part. I am well aware the Germans were also studying ESP and I am pretty sure Asperger would have been aware of that.

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Sirius
On 21/04/2018 at 9:58 PM, Asgardian said:

His actions were despicable but history cannot be revised. Simply put, whether the condition is renamed or not Hans Asperger will always be linked to Asperger Syndrome. Renaming the condition is in truth nothing more than a token gesture which will neither undo his actions for the Nazi regime or cut his ties with autism. As I said, history cannot be revised

When Jimmy Savile died, a beautiful and extravagant triple headstone was placed in Woodlands Cemetery, Scarborough in honour of his memory. Once it became known that he was a monstrous, child molesting scumbag, the gravesite was destroyed because relatives of other people buried in the cemetery were disgusted by its presence. Do you consider that to be historical revisionism too? As I've already said, I am not suggesting that Asperger's contribution to scientific research be expunged from medical journals or history books. I would hope that no one is. Those who wish to learn about his work and his contribution to the discovery of the condition for educational reasons may do so, just as those who - for whatever reason - wish to learn about the career of Jimmy Savile may do so. I fail to see how either of these cases come anywhere close to historical revisionism. The only thing being revoked is public honour, in line with facts that were unknown when that honour was initially given.

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Asgardian
4 hours ago, Sirius said:

When Jimmy Savile died, a beautiful and extravagant triple headstone was placed in Woodlands Cemetery, Scarborough in honour of his memory. Once it became known that he was a monstrous, child molesting scumbag, the gravesite was destroyed because relatives of other people buried in the cemetery were disgusted by its presence. Do you consider that to be historical revisionism too? As I've already said, I am not suggesting that Asperger's contribution to scientific research be expunged from medical journals or history books. I would hope that no one is. Those who wish to learn about his work and his contribution to the discovery of the condition for educational reasons may do so, just as those who - for whatever reason - wish to learn about the career of Jimmy Savile may do so. I fail to see how either of these cases come anywhere close to historical revisionism. The only thing being revoked is public honour, in line with facts that were unknown when that honour was initially given.

Public honour for a man who is dead being revoked does not change what he did and his association with autism. Long story short, certain people who are that way inclined will always see Asperger's work with the Nazi regime and the condition itself as being linked in some way purely because of him. Likewise, some people will always distrust the BBC because of what Jimmy Savile did while working for them. By the way, I never said that I disagree entirely with the condition being renamed, but I am skeptical that it would make any real difference.

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Myrtonos
7 hours ago, Sirius said:

When Jimmy Savile died, a beautiful and extravagant triple headstone was placed in Woodlands Cemetery, Scarborough in honour of his memory. Once it became known that he was a monstrous, child molesting scumbag, the gravesite was destroyed because relatives of other people buried in the cemetery were disgusted by its presence. Do you consider that to be historical revisionism too? As I've already said, I am not suggesting that Asperger's contribution to scientific research be expunged from medical journals or history books. I would hope that no one is. Those who wish to learn about his work and his contribution to the discovery of the condition for educational reasons may do so, just as those who - for whatever reason - wish to learn about the career of Jimmy Savile may do so. I fail to see how either of these cases come anywhere close to historical revisionism. The only thing being revoked is public honour, in line with facts that were unknown when that honour was initially given.

 

2 hours ago, Asgardian said:

Public honour for a man who is dead being revoked does not change what he did and his association with autism. Long story short, certain people who are that way inclined will always see Asperger's work with the Nazi regime and the condition itself as being linked in some way purely because of him. Likewise, some people will always distrust the BBC because of what Jimmy Savile did while working for them. By the way, I never said that I disagree entirely with the condition being renamed, but I am skeptical that it would make any real difference.

Well, what Jimmy did was and still is an offence in whatever country he did, but what Hans Asperger did was not a crime under the Nazi regime. Also, it was not revealed until many years after the end of Hans' life.

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Sirius
On 4/26/2018 at 3:35 AM, Myrtonos said:

Well, what Jimmy did was and still is an offence in whatever country he did, but what Hans Asperger did was not a crime under the Nazi regime.

Oh, so HITLER said it was okay? Wow! That changes everything! My apologies! Objections withdrawn!

See, I had this crazy idea that maybe - just maybe - mass murder, torture, and genocide might be something of a morally grey area, but of course, knowing as I now do that a paragon of wisdom and moral authority such as ol' Adolf himself gave it the green light, who am I to argue?

Jesus Fucking Christ, get a grip.

facepalm.png

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Asgardian
3 hours ago, Sirius said:

Oh, so HITLER said it was okay? Wow! That changes everything! My apologies! Objections withdrawn!

See, I had this crazy idea that maybe - just maybe - mass murder, torture, and genocide might be something of a morally grey area, but of course, knowing as I now do that a paragon of wisdom and moral authority such as ol' Adolf himself gave it the green light, who am I to argue?

Jesus Fucking Christ, get a grip.

facepalm.png

If you didn't want to read opinions you disagree with then perhaps you shouldn't have started the thread in the first place. Also, @Myrtonos has only stated a fact. He has not laid out his stance on the matter, merely saying that what Asperger did was legal in Nazi Germany. That is completely true. I highly doubt @Myrtonos is suggesting it was OK because it was legal.

Edited by Asgardian

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Myrtonos
8 hours ago, Sirius said:

Oh, so HITLER said it was okay? Wow! That changes everything! My apologies! Objections withdrawn!

1

You may find the laws at that time to have been wrong, and many others do, but that's how it was.

8 hours ago, Sirius said:

See, I had this crazy idea that maybe - just maybe - mass murder, torture, and genocide might be something of a morally grey area, but of course, knowing as I now do that a paragon of wisdom and moral authority such as ol' Adolf himself gave it the green light, who am I to argue?

2

Did you know that "ol' Adolf himself" was actually Germany's chancellor before the Third Reich? He may well have been elected by the German people, hoping he would lead Germany out of depression. By the way, he was originally from Austria.

Also, it's still not clear whether Hans' support of the regime was before he identified the syndrome now named after him. I did suggest his contribution to research into psychology was more significant than his maybe brief participation in the Nazi regime.

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Sanctuary

One of the most alarming and dispiriting aspects of human life is that apparently "good", "respectable" people have participated in the most appalling acts. This was certainly the case in Nazi Germany but occurs routinely during war and sometimes in other circumstances as well. While some of these people are "following orders", maybe scared of persecution or even death if they don't comply, the majority do so quite willingly, even enthusiastically. It's also true that some people who are very supportive towards one disadvantaged group may have a much more negative view towards others so it is quite conceivable that Asperger did his best to save those with the type of autism he studied but was quite willing to see others with disabilities die. A few highly principled scientists and other people refused to take part in these acts of persecution but sadly nowhere near enough.

Relating back more specifically to the term "Asperger's Syndrome" I feel unless the claims about Asperger are rapidly refuted it will have to be dropped. One person pointed that individuals with AS already have serious problems being misunderstood without the name of the condition leading to associations with a Nazi collaborator. None of this is to deny the genuine discoveries made by Asperger but sometimes a term carries too much baggage for it to be helpful anymore.  

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Sirius
12 hours ago, Asgardian said:

If you didn't want to read opinions you disagree with then perhaps you shouldn't have started the thread in the first place.

What if someone were to come up to you and say that "in his opinion", your mother deserves to be publicly gang raped, torn limb from limb and left to bleed to death? How would you respond to that, Phil?

"Well, I can't quite agree with you there old sport, but I jolly well respect your opinion. Nice talking to you."

I think we both know the truth would be something rather different, don't we?

My hypothetical is no less horrific than the actions Myrtonos appears to be defending and has taken no steps to assure anyone that he isn't. There are members of this very forum who have learning disabilities and/or started out non-verbal, and others like myself with close friends and relatives of that description. Why should those people have to come to what is supposed to be a support forum and tolerate certain individuals downplaying and tacitly defending those responsible for the mass murder and torture of people exactly like them? This is not the fucking place for it. Take it to Stormfront, if you must.

I welcome a diverse range of opinions on the issue of whether the public honour of having a condition named after him ought to be revoked from Hans Asperger in light of the atrocities he participated in, and I thank everyone (including you) for on-topic contributions related to that question. What I certainly did not expect was to be put in the position of having to explain why mass murder, torture and genocide are grave moral problems that shouldn't be downplayed or dismissed.

13 hours ago, Asgardian said:

I highly doubt @Myrtonos is suggesting it was OK because it was legal.

I wish I could say the same, but I honestly don't see any other reasonable interpretation of what Myrtonos has said. He's had over a week to unequivocally condemn the mass murder and torture of innocent disabled children, and he hasn't done so.

If someone told me that something I'd posted made me look like an apologist for genocide, child murder and torture, I would immediately do everything in my power to remove any ambiguity about my position. What has Myrtonos done since the start of this thread?

  • Characterised his participation in genocide, child murder and torture as an insignificant part of Asperger's legacy
  • Implied that there exists moral ambiguity about the innocence of the child murder victims
  • Neglected to mention the most severe of Asperger's crimes, treating them as superfluous enough to be covered with an "etc"
  • Gave the Nazi regime's approval of Asperger's actions as a reason why honour shouldn't be revoked in a manner consistent with other posthumous atrocities*

* i.e. NOT just as a contextless statement of fact.

Please tell me, what else am I supposed to make of that?

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Asgardian

@Sirius OK, fine. I was just stating that responding in the way you did ultimately doesn't solve anything. I am not defending what @Myrtonos has said.

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Sirius
7 minutes ago, Asgardian said:

@Sirius OK, fine. I was just stating that responding in the way you did ultimately doesn't solve anything. I am not defending what @Myrtonos has said.

Fair enough, I suppose.

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Asgardian
16 minutes ago, Sirius said:

Fair enough, I suppose.

Perhaps you could report his posts. Then it would be up to the moderators and what their interpretation of them is.

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Myrtonos
15 hours ago, Sirius said:

My hypothetical is no less horrific than the actions Myrtonos appears to be defending and has taken no steps to assure anyone that he isn't. There are members of this very forum who have learning disabilities and/or started out non-verbal, and others like myself with close friends and relatives of that description. Why should those people have to come to what is supposed to be a support forum and tolerate certain individuals downplaying and tacitly defending those responsible for the mass murder and torture of people exactly like them?

I am defending nothing. Just stating how it was at the time. Many learning disabilities weren't well understood at that time.

15 hours ago, Sirius said:

I wish I could say the same, but I honestly don't see any other reasonable interpretation of what Myrtonos has said. He's had over a week to unequivocally condemn the mass murder and torture of innocent disabled children, and he hasn't done so.

I'm not quite sure what the second sentence is supposed to mean.

15 hours ago, Sirius said:

If someone told me that something I'd posted made me look like an apologist for genocide, child murder and torture, I would immediately do everything in my power to remove any ambiguity about my position. What has Myrtonos done since the start of this thread?

  • Characterised his participation in genocide, child murder and torture as an insignificant part of Asperger's legacy
  • Implied that there exists moral ambiguity about the innocence of the child murder victims
  • Neglected to mention the most severe of Asperger's crimes, treating them as superfluous enough to be covered with an "etc"
  • Gave the Nazi regime's approval of Asperger's actions as a reason why honour shouldn't be revoked in a manner consistent with other posthumous atrocities*

* i.e. NOT just as a contextless statement of fact.

Please tell me, what else am I supposed to make of that?

 
  • I was comparing it to his contribution to medical research and saying the latter appears to be much more significant, that's all. As far as I know, he contributed to medical research for a much greater portion of this life than he participated in a program that is now widely resented.
  • Do you believe absolute morality exists or not?
  • That's only because they were already mentioned. Also, it was allowed under German law at that time, so if you call it a crime, explain what you mean by "crime".
  • No, I definitely did not. I just said the Nazi regime approved of it. We might resent that approval, but that's how it was.

Most German and Austrian doctors and therapists at that time participated in programs like the eugenics one, and it may well may that Hans had to in order to keep that position.

 

Edited by Myrtonos

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