Jump to content
Dr-David-Banner

Could Elliot Rodger Have Been "Cured"?

Recommended Posts

Dr-David-Banner

By the way I do not have anger or blame issues towards women nor seek to defend those who do. I did used to suffer total bewilderment as to why I was excluded from normal friendships but my reaction was to just withdraw. It took me a long time to figure out how mating actually works and then in time I stopped blaming myself. And I never blamed others. It just made me feel isolated. For me the whole thing runs deeper than just relationships. It spirals out from employment and status and stability. It's pointless blaming others but regardless many autists lack social intelligence. For me even serving customers in a shop would be like nuclear physics. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dr-David-Banner

Off topic and onto dating per se, guys with more severe AS will struggle to react to or interpret flirting. They have impairment of non verbal language. They will not understand facial expressions or social norms. In the case of my best friend he put it all down to his nose and insisted on cosmetic surgery. His psychologist felt this was a mistake. Of course now I could explain to him that dating requires instinctive, non verbal skills autists lack. To me dating is rooted in social terrain and have you ever noticed how in films like Karate Kid, the crisis in dating is caused by the apparent social shortcomings of the hero. That is a skinny guy on a bike ends up dating a cheerleader but her friends think he's a bad choice. To finally win the girl he winds up needing to win the All Valley Karate tournament. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Miss Chief
7 hours ago, Dr-David-Banner said:

I know nothing about this Incels business which seems to be another new term?

Well Elliot Rodger is considered to be the first Incel, in actuality the term was originally coined by a woman but the term has been taken over by people who follow Elliot Rodger's point of view, they often use his 'manifesto' as a guide.

6 hours ago, Dr-David-Banner said:

I did used to suffer total bewilderment as to why I was excluded from normal friendships but my reaction was to just withdraw. 

 

7 hours ago, Dr-David-Banner said:

The posts desribed the poster  as very good looking but that girls just walked off after a few minutes. He said they preferred jerks and so forth and that it wasn't fair. 

That pretty much describes Incels, the term stands for INvoluntarily CELibate and most of the people who identify this way believe they are entitled to sex, they think they are 'nice guys' and women are shallow gold diggers who would rather be with badly behaved men who are successful or popular or good looking than someone with a nice personality, they hate women and sexually successful men and they blame women for why they aren't getting laid, most of them do not accept that it is their fault or that they have the power to change their situation. They also don't believe it is possible for a woman to be an Incel even though the term was initially coined by a woman.

Elliot Rodger was unlikely to be on an AS forum since he wasn't diagnosed with it but there are a lot of incels out there and some of them are from the AS community.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dr-David-Banner

I am told he was diagnosed with HFA.. The debates on his diagnosis are "hot" and in conflict. Lots of debate on Wrong Planet. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dr-David-Banner

As you can see, psychologists seem to frequently disagree:

"Mr. Rodger’s mother, Li Chin, filed an affidavit describing Elliot as a “high-functioning autistic child,” and said she needed more child support to care for him. His father, Peter Rodger, countered with a Beverly Hills doctor, Stephen M. Scappa, who challenged that diagnosis, saying it failed to acknowledge the possibility of “depression or anxiety.” Dr. Scappa said that Elliot, almost 8 at the time, should be sent to a child psychiatrist for more examination and treatment."

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Miss Chief

The problem with your evidence is that in the US it's common for people to 'exaggerate' medical reports to help with court cases and child/spousal support claims. The fact is that there is no diagnosis on record for him as stated in the articles I linked originally.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TheWizardofCalculus
On 7/5/2018 at 7:00 PM, Dr-David-Banner said:

I had a friend on the spectrum exactly like Elliot Rodger and it also ended in dramatic bloodshed. Unlike Rodger, my friend tended to blame himself for not having a girlfriend. Whereas Rodger blamed others. He hated men because they could get girls and he hated girls for not being interested in him. Anyway, my friend was similar to Elliot as he also tried bodybuilding and constantly asked me why he couldn't get a girlfriend. [...]

Could Eliot Roger have been cured?

Depends on how you mean it.  Cured of being a sack of shit?  Probably.  Different support system, different interactions, he might have been a different person.  Or he might have always been a narcissistic piece of shit and nothing would cure him of that.  We'll never know now.

I think a better question might be in how to address hormones, angst, depression, insecurities, and ASD in teenagers.  There's definitely something we can do about that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dr-David-Banner

"One might expect from much that has been said so far that social
integration of autistic people is extremely difficult if not impossible. After
all, we have pointed out that the essential feature of the condition is a
disturbance of adaptation to the social environment. This bleak expecta-
tion, however, is borne out only in a minority of cases and, in particular,
almost exclusively in those people with considerable intellectual retardation
in addition to autism.

The fate of the latter cases is often very sad. At best they may get into a
low-level odd job, often only on a temporary basis. In the less favourable
cases, they roam the streets as 'originals', grotesque and dilapidated, talking
loudly to themselves or unconcernedly to passers-by as autistic individuals
would. They are taunted by urchins and react to this with wild but
ineffectual outbursts.


This is not so with intellectually intact autistic individuals, and in
particular those of above-average intelligence. Of course, in adulthood too
their relationships to others are as disturbed as they are in childhood when
they produce the same characteristic conflicts." (Hans Asperger)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dr-David-Banner

Not that, E. R. didn't have various co-morbid conditions and an overall cocktail of experiences and influences that pushed him towards destruction.

Off-topic but after all it seems you can also access Hans Asperger's work in English. I only had it in Russian but, glad to say, it is indeed available to read in English.

https://archive.org/stream/ChildAndAdolescentPsychology/Children%20&%20adolescents/Autism%20and%20asperger/2008%20-%20Autism%20and%20Asperger%20syndrome%20-%20Frith_djvu.txt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dr-David-Banner

The thinking behind this question I asked is what on earth was the psychologist doing? If an individual develops anti social symptoms that places others in potential danger, then steps have to be taken. Yet here several alarming videos were placed on YouTube. As to effective treatment why not? My take on this is we are programmed to think we must have a career, friends and marry. And then have children. The snag is with very acute Asperger Syndrome you are simply unable to pass through this process. Marriage and work depend upon successful interpretation of social norms. If you markedly say and do the wrong things and become an outsider, you either end up very isolated or maybe homeless - worst case scenario. I think though that if you learn there's a solid reason behind all of it, that helps a lot. I don't mean using AS as an excuse - just accepting trying to be remotely normal is tough going. I myself only have one relatively close female friend and there the bond is she's not fully NT and they have autism (high-functioning) in the family. I have no idea if I ought to flirt with her, how to flirt or if it's simply the autism issue that we have in common. I am totally clueless. Really I just had to accept with the AS I have curses and blessings. However those who feel obligated to compete and live up to expectations of being a winner and popular may become depressed and later maybe angry and even unstable. Just the same as relationships you might as well add employment, family and friendships to the list. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.