Jump to content
RiRi

What's it like to be beautiful?

Recommended Posts

Alice
On 10/13/2019 at 12:34 PM, RiRi said:

Greta does seem very intelligent but I'm afraid you are right about she not being able to control how she looks to the public. She's like never smiling and the way she gives speeches seems like she's angry and like she's always reading. She should memorize her speeches to the letter. Or maybe she's just doing that as a tactic so she doesn't make too much eye contact. She could also fix her facial expressions by looking at herself in the mirror. I was so excited when I read an article about her doing good things for climate change but kind of sad to see her facial expression when expressing herself. People know she's autistic and I feel like people, once again, are getting the wrong picture of autistic people. Not all of us look like that when giving a speech.

I really disagree with this - this is autism discrimination. Plenty of autistic people have difficulty controlling facial expressions, have facial tics, or just dont conform to the socially accepted facial expressions, especially when getting sensory overwhelm (like when giving global speeches..) - they should still be accepted just as they are by people/society and able to pursue their dreams and goals without hatred, bullying, and discrimination. People know shes autistic, and need to get over it and understand she doesnt mean what those expressions 'normally' mean. Saying she should try harder misses the point - its just the same as telling someone to suppress their stims. The high pressure to always be conforming to NT standards, to be perfectly 'masking' (imitating a neurotypical) - is doing double the work, effort and stress and is exactly what leads to autism burnout. Its also why there is such a high unemployment rate, university dropout, and suicide rate - a lack of accepting autistic people for how they are.

But no-one tells Kodi Lee that he should change his face and expressions to be accepted and able to follow his dreams, so its either bias/lack of understanding around some autistic symptoms and not others or just a sexist thing - or that Greta is challenging those in power benefiting from the current toxically capitalistic economy. "Noone is more hated than he who speaks the truth" - Plato.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kuribo
18 hours ago, Alice said:

I really disagree with this - this is autism discrimination. Plenty of autistic people have difficulty controlling facial expressions, have facial tics, or just dont conform to the socially accepted facial expressions, especially when getting sensory overwhelm (like when giving global speeches..) - they should still be accepted just as they are by people/society and able to pursue their dreams and goals without hatred, bullying, and discrimination. People know shes autistic, and need to get over it and understand she doesnt mean what those expressions 'normally' mean. Saying she should try harder misses the point - its just the same as telling someone to suppress their stims. The high pressure to always be conforming to NT standards, to be perfectly 'masking' (imitating a neurotypical) - is doing double the work, effort and stress and is exactly what leads to autism burnout. Its also why there is such a high unemployment rate, university dropout, and suicide rate - a lack of accepting autistic people for how they are.

But no-one tells Kodi Lee that he should change his face and expressions to be accepted and able to follow his dreams, so its either bias/lack of understanding around some autistic symptoms and not others or just a sexist thing - or that Greta is challenging those in power benefiting from the current toxically capitalistic economy. "Noone is more hated than he who speaks the truth" - Plato.

Excellent post. I agree entirely. Greta should be no more expected to fake her body language than a wheelchair-bound person would be to crawl up a flight of stairs. Besides, when it comes to the subject of large corporations wilfully destroying the natural environment for a profit, bribing elected officials to let them get away with it, and bankrolling misinformation campaigns intended to keep the public scientifically ignorant, what is there to smile about? Why shouldn't she be angry?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RiRi
On 10/14/2019 at 4:45 PM, Alice said:

I really disagree with this - this is autism discrimination. Plenty of autistic people have difficulty controlling facial expressions, have facial tics, or just dont conform to the socially accepted facial expressions, especially when getting sensory overwhelm (like when giving global speeches..) - they should still be accepted just as they are by people/society and able to pursue their dreams and goals without hatred, bullying, and discrimination. People know shes autistic, and need to get over it and understand she doesnt mean what those expressions 'normally' mean. Saying she should try harder misses the point - its just the same as telling someone to suppress their stims. The high pressure to always be conforming to NT standards, to be perfectly 'masking' (imitating a neurotypical) - is doing double the work, effort and stress and is exactly what leads to autism burnout. Its also why there is such a high unemployment rate, university dropout, and suicide rate - a lack of accepting autistic people for how they are.

But no-one tells Kodi Lee that he should change his face and expressions to be accepted and able to follow his dreams, so its either bias/lack of understanding around some autistic symptoms and not others or just a sexist thing - or that Greta is challenging those in power benefiting from the current toxically capitalistic economy. "Noone is more hated than he who speaks the truth" - Plato.

11 hours ago, Kuribo said:

Excellent post. I agree entirely. Greta should be no more expected to fake her body language than a wheelchair-bound person would be to crawl up a flight of stairs. Besides, when it comes to the subject of large corporations wilfully destroying the natural environment for a profit, bribing elected officials to let them get away with it, and bankrolling misinformation campaigns intended to keep the public scientifically ignorant, what is there to smile about? Why shouldn't she be angry?

I never said that she should smile or anything, when I said she should memorize instead of reading it, I said it because she would look more professional doing that, rather than her sentences being choppy and seeming as if she's exaggerating her facial expressions. I know it's possible to talk calmly about something and that was my suggestion. She seems to be forcing her facial expression. I've yet to see how she looks normally not doing the speeches, to see if she's permanently with that exaggerated angry facial expression. I suspect she doesn't always look like this. I know some people are capable of having a more neutral facial expression (see, not smiling) when they know enough about the subject.

I don't know who Kodi is but I assume he's also autistic and is more accepted by society, I can't comment on him/her because I don't know what's the situation with him.

I guess it might actually be a cultural thing, @Alice I seem to agree with you that some autistic traits just can't be controlled. I seemed a while ago that the administrator thought the opposite. Also, I've learned that changing doesn't happen over night, it takes time. And I've actually encountered autistic people, I saw them in flesh, in person, and it looks like some forget things they are told and continue to do certain things even though they've been told to not go there (metaphorically). What I don't agree with is with abiding to society, we have to abide to some extent, you know this as it seems like you have abided as well. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ancus

I love being beautiful.  It's rad as hell. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Peridot

I don't really take Greta that seriously so I got a laugh out of this:

lmao

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RiRi
On 10/21/2019 at 5:09 PM, Peridot said:

I don't really take Greta that seriously so I got a laugh out of this:

lmao

I thought it was her but now I realize she's been photoshopped and the person playing the drums is actually not Greta. I believe he is making fun of her.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RiRi

@Alice @Kuribo

I found an interview where it shows that she can be more calm, as I suspected, have a more neutral facial expression while talking. 

I did notice that sometimes she abides and tries to pause and smile with the crowd while other times she doesn't seem to understand or just gets tired of abiding. I actually share a similar experience with her when I made a presentation: being funny without trying to/meaning to. And abiding the first time, laughing with the crowd but not the recurrent times. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Peridot
9 hours ago, RiRi said:

I thought it was her but now I realize she's been photoshopped and the person playing the drums is actually not Greta. I believe he is making fun of her.

How dare he?! 😄

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alice
On 10/16/2019 at 6:59 PM, RiRi said:

She seems to be forcing her facial expression.

In the large conference speeches there is much more at stake. Actual decisions are being made by the people before her and she is trying desperately to convince powerful people that change is actually needed - she is trying to communicate how she feels with intensity and passion so people get the message, she really cares about what she is speaking about - and like most aspies, her masked imitation of 'normal' facial communication, it doesnt come off right. Its too strong, severe, too vulnerable, to honest - everything about it makes people uncomfortable with difference, so they attack, so as to silence or get 'rid' of it.

But better for Greta to feel anger over a valid injustice (Abuse and exploitation of the environment) than hatred/attack over something actually non-threatening and acceptable (Greta's face).

Or for her to feel the frustration that  many people dont even believe in climate change which is just a lack of education/ignorance/denial  (Truth to Power is a good documentary on netflix; - climate change: the facts is a 2019 short episode).  This is naturally frustrating when she has set aside a lot of her wellbeing, and her personal sensory preferences, and life, to try try and make positive, needed change. The point is, even without autism - her expressions are valid.

On 10/16/2019 at 6:59 PM, RiRi said:

I know some people are capable of having a more neutral facial expression

Not all aspies are the same or experience the same symptoms

 

On 10/13/2019 at 12:34 PM, RiRi said:

People know she's autistic and I feel like people, once again, are getting the wrong picture of autistic people


Yet many autistic women are finally feeling represented:
Here is this article on autistic facial expression and being a woman about exactly this: https://theaspergian.com/2019/10/05/on-autistic-facial-expression-and-being-a-woman/

I think she is a wonderful and powerful role model - and its so good seeing an aspie succeeding in the real world (she is impacting massive changes despite backlash).

Disability discrimination occurs when: a disabled person is treated less favourably than a non-disabled person, and. they are treated this way for a reason arising from their disability, and the treatment cannot be justified.

75533637_ScreenShot2019-10-28at6_59_26PM.thumb.png.342fe2e2939fce026f8a4ef4c10949b0.png


" she could also fix her facial expressions by looking at herself in the mirror" @RiRi
"I was so excited when I read an article about her doing good things for climate change but kind of sad to see her facial expression when expressing herself" @RiRi

Most who are capable of masking their facial expression for neurotypical social approval/social-survival find that it has limits in terms of how long they can sustain this, how well, and how overwhelmed or not they are, what the environment is like, how much discomfort they are experiencing etc..  So it is also part of her autism - and part of being a 'high-functioning' autistic person that we dont actually experience "high functioning" but variable functioning - and its good that people see this, so they can learn to understand that aspie's are able to perform more and less well depending on the situation, support etc.. I guess we are just not used to seeing aspies in the media..a lot of us still see the dominant/oppessive system as the "better" standard - but this violates and discriminates against aspies and their freedoms/rights. I think we have grown up believing 'we' are the 'problem' due to being blamed/shamed/punished for our differences in sensory perception+responses, and many now carry a heavy sense of shame about autistic presentation/existence in general, and its really unfortunate to contribute towards this continuing for other aspie's - I do find it pretty disturbing that these kind of view exist. there is a real sense of judging other aspie for not being capable for changing themselves:
 

On 10/16/2019 at 6:59 PM, RiRi said:

I seem to agree with you that some autistic traits just can't be controlled. I seemed a while ago that the administrator thought the opposite. Also, I've learned that changing doesn't happen over night, it takes time. And I've actually encountered autistic people, I saw them in flesh, in person, and it looks like some forget things they are told and continue to do certain things even though they've been told to not go there (metaphorically).



There is a difference between trying to change who you are, and changing what you do. Having to change things intrinsic to who you are, that are harmless to others, and that cause harm/reduction in quality of life to try change, which is extremely toxic - and again part of disability discrimination and ableism. 
If you are always trying to perfectly appear like an NT, there is no way you can engage with the world - and achieve what you want to achieve - or ever be accepted for who you are (lacking this acceptance is psychologically damaging). This whole attitude of aspies being the ones who need to change/ are the problem leads to unnecessary levels of masking: and autistic burnout, greater isolation etc.. 

There is a difference between conforming to society by driving on the correct side of the road etc.. which improves things,  is reasonable etc..and doing things that cause harm, or reduce your capacity to have a full, healthy life, suppress who you are etc.. Even free range chickens have the "right to display natural behaviours" according to the SPCA.. Surely greta deserves the same rights as a chicken without death threats, being discredited, mocked, belittled etc...


In regards to the images, I dont know what kind of person, slows down someones speech of someone doing something honorable and good to find the worst expression, and publicise it - certainly not anyone I want changing my opinion. ALL people have momentary flashes of odd expressions, or are displaying expressions different to what they felt like they were communicating - which anyone finds out watching  any videos of themselves - if you find have any videos of yourself - or any youtube video of anyone, find out for yourself. They certainly didnt try to publicise the far larger proportion of expressions where she looks compassionate, helpless, confused, righteous - but only the one that would create negativity towards her.

 

On 10/22/2019 at 1:09 PM, Peridot said:

I don't really take Greta that seriously so I got a laugh out of this:

 

On 10/25/2019 at 3:01 AM, Peridot said:

How dare he?! 😄


I think we should always care how other aspies are treated by society - whether we agree or disagree with their personal viewpoints. Because its ultimate the same way we are perceived and treated by society - I'm pretty sure most if not all of us have experienced similar kinds of bullying, mockery, belittling and to a lesser extent public destruction of character Greta has.

If she does not deserve acceptance for who and how she is as an aspie, then neither do you, or any one else who feels this way about her

Anyway.. I dont think ive replied to every aspect that was raised. and thank you @Kuribo for your post, which was at least good to see, but we are all at wherever we are at. This is not well-edited as i'm tired.

Hopefully, things keep changing in a positive direction - even due to people like Great sparking controversy/backlash by being herself, increasing visibility of autism, and causing re-education of those in society with misinformed views which Great has sparked a massive amount of and has caused a massive wave of support from the autistic community and NT's

Edited by Alice

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.